Questions to Ponder- Moving Lorain City Hall

GUEST POST Daniel W Given

ED NOTE. Dan Given, as always outspoken and to  the point shares his thoughts with  OH HER AGAIN BLOG and City  of Lorain Politics Face Book Page.  

Daniel W Given: lifelong Lorain resident
• Former elected Council person in the 7th ward, 8th ward and Council at Large for 22 years 1994-2016.
• Safety Service Director 4 years – 2016-2019….. Under Mayor Chase Ritenauer
• Currently General Manager/ Chief Operating Officer, Paul Davis Restoration, Strongsville.

Questions to ponder:

Why is a new city hall even needed?

(a) I would understand the thought process if people were clamoring to come into Lorain let alone the downtown of Lorain which is miles away from a major highway.

(b) The current city hall is in acceptable shape with the city keeping up with basic maintenance. The current mayor just spent tens of thousands of dollars on landscaping thus fortifying this position so the property is far from rundown.

(c)The Property meets the city current needs as it has for the last few decades. (It holds all employees .The LPD has invested many upgrades and expansions there and the LPD electronics alone will cost an abundance to replicate or move. Also the Jail will most likely close in the future offering more space for LPD if needed after remodeling it).

(d) Employee /elected officials desire for shiny new toys is not the reason for long term debt.

(e) This offers no benefit to taxpayers nor offers any efficiency of services.

(f) No corporate entity would think about making such an investment with no financial goal of improving profits….

(g) Current Mayor Bradley wants to say” look at me, I opened up the waterfront”…. but for what?

Photo source Face Book

(h) Unless we have all missed the news release there is no interest.

Remember, we bought the finger piers thinking that would lure in the developers- NOPE. Ohio Edison took down the electric plant hoping to lure developers- NOPE. We took down the high tension wires thinking that would lure developers- NOPE.

We have spent MILLIONS $$ on our dream of prosperity yet no one wants us. Developers don’t want to invest their money here. We spent spent spent and still nothing. Stop spending on OUR local vision and see what others are NOT INVESTING IN.

(i) Name a lakefront city around us that is blossoming and attracting high dollar business investment…..

I see none and hear crickets…… Erie, PA to Toledo…. nothing worth noting.
Sandusky has the top rated amusement park in the nation and yet they struggle financially and have similar problems. The cold weather 9 months a year does not make us a vacation Mecca and we need to accept that. Even the Macinac Island area is dead with no development along the mainland shores.

(j) Enough already. The Emperor has no clothes with this idea and it needs to be addressed. It’s wasted time and wasted $39,000.

(k) As to St Joseph hospital land, who has the most to gain from removed responsibility going forward? Legacy owners.

(l) Stand up for common sense. Someone on the city council has to have the willingness to understand reality and saving OPM – other people’s money. The citizens limited tax dollars.

(m) Let’s focus and understand corporations/developers invest in areas with disposable income. Our area is severely lacking that compared to others.

(n) Lorain’s residents are far from wealthy. Poverty levels are definitely present here. Locally we have no clothing stores except Kohl’s, no car dealers, no high end restaurants, no recreational facility, etc. etc…. our housing values are at the bottom, our schools in disarray, our roads and water lines need work, we have basic city services only. We have no recreational programs for young or old, we have higher than want crime, we have gun shots daily, we have no employment outside of hospital and government to speak of…. .. Reality sucks doesn’t it?

(o) Let’s work on things that make a difference. Moving a building that’s been there for 50 years without a pressing need and no funds for the next debt payment is far from a financially sound decision. Elected officials need to make financially sound decisions and not RISKY DEVELOPMENT decisions. Those are for the private sector

(p) Next, who wants to buy? Anyone? The Staubauch  report presented in 2008.just before the Subprime Mortgage Crisis, when the bottom fell out.

THERE IS A SURPRISE!!!! | That Woman’s Weblog (wordpress.com

spelled out lots of things to us yet everyone forgets the need to clean up our back yard prior to asking others to come in and see our potential. We spent thousands {ED NOTE $90,000} on that report yet is sits in the basement unread by current officials. Oh ya, what it says is unpopular and unpleasant to our residents. It says clean up your back yard. Clean up your homes. Lower your crime. Improve your school scores. Once again I hear crickets. I am not happy about all this either however I am no longer dreaming until we IMPROVE OURSELVES. AND HAVE A TIME LINE FOR COMPLETION .

(q) Remember Our Steel plants are shuttered. We are a Rust belt city. For at least the last 28 years I am not aware of any large developer or business being interested in the property or the area of downtown Lorain.

(r) We as Lorainites, think the property is valuable but no one else has or does. We continue to dream but someone needs to be the VOICE OF REASON. We have beer budgets yet champagne dreams. Developers usually want to use other people’s moneys as well. What well will we want to drain for that? More debt?.

Photo Lorain 365

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(s) Let’s also remember the finger piers have no utilities to that area and the cost to run utilities will be extremely expensive and most likely cost prohibitive. The finger piers will also need structural analysis to determine what that land is capable of holding up. Piles of ore do not have the same liability as a condo building or office building. The only way Cleveland has had such investment like that has been through state and federal dollars for infrastructure.

ED NOTE: Remember this concept of over 20  years ago – the Old Ohio  Edison plant is still pictured

and then the ship  in the bottle concept that was touted by Mayor Foltin  in 2005 to  get the cash to  go  for a casino   that was never going to  happen  casino though council, and other “pipe dreams”  Loraine Ritchey

2006 – Lorain was dreaming lights on Broadway then and now | That Woman’s Weblog (wordpress.com)

(t) Our residents can’t even afford the utility department physical improvements required. We need to improve those underground assets and once we viewed those needs and increases the fees to cover future improvements, the public said NO.

(u) Folks these are the raw, unvarnished, hurtful facts. Warts and all

(v) Lorain needs a lot of things but not this, not now. Elected officials and their Priorities are beyond screwed up to even consider this pipe dream.

We barely afforded the city central service building and the two new fire stations without the additional levy funded by the local tax payers.

Let’s remember, the east side fire station was a 100 year old decaying structure with NO MAINTENANCE regularly give to it and if a business was operating out of the old city garage facility we would have shut them down for safety violations. The City didn’t maintain that building either. Those two buildings were decades beyond their usable life yet our workers were forced to work in them. Our current City hall is not like those buildings..

(w) I could go on and on. I love the city and its people however our leadership needs to understand who we actually are and what we actually need. A new city hall is NOT WHAT WE NEED.

(x) I am deeply disappointed I even need to draft this rant of reality but it needed to be said… Dan Given 

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Minutes and info of Charter Commission Meetings COLP

Lorain Charter Commission Jan 12, 2021
Home Government Boards, Commissions & Committees Lorain Charter Commission
https://www.cityoflorain.org/570/lorain-charter-commission
Commission Member Bios Jan 11, 2021
Home Government Boards, Commissions & Committees Lorain Charter Commission Commission Member Bios
https://www.cityoflorain.org/572/commission-member-bios
RFQ Attorney-Law Firm Jan 13, 2021
https://www.cityoflorain.org/documentcenter/view/3027
Commission: 1. Attend all Lorain Charter Commission meetings and Lorain City Council meetings as deemed necessary by the Commission. 2. Act as legal counsel and provide legal representation on behalf of the Charter Commission. 3. Research issues and concerns identified by the Commission
634 KB
RFQ Admin Assistant Jan 13, 2021
https://www.cityoflorain.org/documentcenter/view/3032
list of services shall be provided by the Administrative Assistant to the Lorain Charter Commission: 1. Creation of agenda and packets for all meetings. 2. Attendance at all meetings of the body to assist with all coordinating and facilitation. 3. Assist the stenographer with information
134 KB
RFQ Attorney/Law Firm Jan 13, 2021
https://www.cityoflorain.org/documentcenter/view/3035
Commission: 1. Attend all Lorain Charter Commission meetings and Lorain City Council meetings as deemed necessary by the Commission. 2. Act as legal counsel and provide legal representation on behalf of the Charter Commission. 3. Research issues and concerns identified by the Commission
136 KB
Charter Commission Meeting Dates Feb 24, 2021
Home Government Boards, Commissions & Committees Lorain Charter Commission Charter Commission Meeting Dates
https://www.cityoflorain.org/573/charter-commission-meeting-dates
Regular Meetings- 2nd & 4th Tuesday of each month Click here to subscribe to automatically receive notice when an agenda is published! Committee 1 (6pm) & Regular Meeting (7pm) Committees 2 (6pm) & 3 (7pm) Committees 4 (6pm) & 5 (7pm) March 9 & 23April 13 & 27May 11 & 25 March 2April 6May 4 March 16April 20May…
RFQ Admin Assistant Jan 13, 2021
https://www.cityoflorain.org/documentcenter/view/3026
list of services shall be provided by the Administrative Assistant to the Lorain Charter Commission: 1. Creation of agenda and packets for all meetings. 2. Attendance at all meetings of the body to assist with all coordinating and facilitation. 3. Assist the stenographer with information
633 KB
RFQ Consultant Jan 13, 2021
https://www.cityoflorain.org/documentcenter/view/3028
candidate will be required to attend 12-16 Charter Commission meetings. Attendance is also required when requested for Lorain City Council meetings, including but not limited to, committee meetings, public meetings, and other meetings deemed necessary and appropriate by the Charter Commission
630 KB
RFQ Stenographer-Court Reporter Jan 13, 2021
https://www.cityoflorain.org/documentcenter/view/3029
The following list of services shall be provided by the Court Reporter/Stenographer to the Lorain Charter Commission: 1. Recordation of meetings by stenographic recording. 2. Transcription of meeting proceedings upon request. 3. Identification of all items, including but not limited to, records
630 KB
RFQ Stenographer/Court Reporter Jan 13, 2021
https://www.cityoflorain.org/documentcenter/view/3034
The following list of services shall be provided by the Court Reporter/Stenographer to the Lorain Charter Commission: 1. Recordation of meetings by stenographic recording. 2. Transcription of meeting proceedings upon request. 3. Identification of all items, including but not limited to, records
133 KB
Lorain Charter Commission Meeting – 3-8-21 http://destinyhosted.com/loraidocs/2021/CHRTCOMM/20210309_556/555_3-9-21%20Ch%20Comm%20AQ%20min.pdf

Lorain Charter Commission Meeting – 2-16-2021 (destinyhosted.com)

Click to access 537_Lorain%20Charter%20Commission%20Meeting%20-%202-16-2021.pdf

Lorain Charter Commission Transcript – 1-26-2021 (destinyhosted.com

Click to access 517_Lorain%20Charter%20Commission%20Transcript%20-%201-26-2021.pdf


LORAIN CITY CHARTER COMMISSION March 9th 2021

LORAIN CITY CHARTER COMMISSION Jan 12 2021
LORAIN CITY CHARTER COMMISSION Jan 12 2021

501_4072_Charter_12-22-2020.pdf (destinyhosted.com)

Click to access 501_4072_Charter_12-22-2020.pdf

AND HERE ARE THE VIDEO LINKS ( OH MY????) CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW!!!!!!!
http://lorainoh.suiteonemedia.com/web/Player.aspx?id=220&key=-1&mod=-1&mk=-1&nov=0

http://lorainoh.suiteonemedia.com/Web/Player.aspx?id=223&key=-1&mod=-1&mk=-1&nov=0

http://lorainoh.suiteonemedia.com/Web/Player.aspx?id=227&key=-1&mod=-1&mk=-1&nov=0

http://lorainoh.suiteonemedia.com/Web/Player.aspx?id=230&key=-1&mod=-1&mk=-1&nov=0

http://lorainoh.suiteonemedia.com/Web/Player.aspx?id=232&key=-1&mod=-1&mk=-1&nov=0

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Charter Information Info COLP-FB Part 1.

Information provided by City of Lorain Politics Member Kathryn Kennedy
PAGE ONE

Here is some general information on city administration/council. All charter cities. What form do you prefer?
I believe the commission already voted to keep mayor/council – with other details to be determined.
Similar sized, Ohio cities, by population:
https://www.ohio-demographics.com/cities_by_population
Lorain – 63,801
1. Youngstown – 64,783
2. Hamilton – 62,182
3. Springfield – 59,132
4. Kettering – 55,390
5. Elyria – 53,821
6. Lakewood – 50,259
City managers typically have relevant experience and degree requirements
1. Youngstown
https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/codes/youngstown/latest/overview
Mayor/council
Mayor – elected
7 council members – elected by ward
Compensation of mayor by ordinance. Council – $27,817.24 annually
2. Hamilton
https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/codes/hamilton/latest/overview
Council/city manager
6 council at large, plus mayor – elected
Compensation – $300 annually – council members and mayor. Mayor may receive additional based on ordinance
City manager – appointed by council
3. Springfield
https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/codes/springfield/latest/overview
City commission/city manager
Commission – 5 members, including mayor – elected at large
Compensation – $2,500 annually
City manager – appointed by commission
4. Kettering

City of Kettering Charter


Council/city manager
7 council members, one of which is mayor – 4 from districts, 3 at large (including the mayor)
Compensation – $8,000 for council members. $12,000 for Mayor
City manager – appointed by council
5. Elyria
https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/codes/elyria/
Mayor/council
11 members on council – 7 wards, 4 at large
Compensation set by council
6. Lakewood

Click to access Third-Amended-Charter-of-the-City-of-Lakewood-as-amended-by-the-electorate-11052019.pdf

Mayor/council
7 members on council. 4 from wards. 3 at large
Civil service commission recommendation for compensation
Key issues:
Mayor/city manager?
Council/commission?
Number on council – redraw wards?
Compensation
Number of years to serve
Bonding of officials
Hold other public offices?
Ethics – removal for lack thereof
Professional qualifications of city manager
More detail in the city charter links.

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Lorain City Council Questions COLPFB

Lorain City  Council How  Legislation Works

Posts Mary Springowski  in response to  questions  City  of Lorain Politics

 (1)Someone asked why ordinances are reported out as “and declaring an emergency”. This is a standard process whereby we waive the three reading rule…..where an ordinance has to be read three times before we vote on it and it goes into effect. The sponsor of the ordinance will make the motion to suspend or waive the three reading rule. This is so the ordinance can be voted on immediately. This is done because many ordinances have time constraints or in the case of appropriations, so people can be paid. Council only meets on the first and third Mondays of the month so ordinances (and paychecks) could be held up by 6 weeks. This is to try to streamline the process a little bit. Are there times when Council members vote no on suspending the rule? Yes. I’ve done so many times.

(2) Who sponsors an ordinance? The chairperson of the committee that ordinance would fall under. They didn’t necessarily originate the proposed ordinance but they are the sponsors.

Appointments to a Committee of Council

 Mary  Springowski  answered  the question :

How does City Council appoint who is going to chair or be in any one committee

The council president does that. We are given a form and asked which committees we would like in order of preference and which we would like to chair.

Standing Committees:

Standing Committees | Lorain, OH (cityoflorain.org)
https://www.cityoflorain.org/383/Standing-Committees

Building and Lands Committee

Federal Programs Committee

Finance Committee

Parks and Recreation Committee

Police / Fire and Legislative Committee

Streets and Utilities Committee

Building and Lands Committee
Members
Mary Springowski, Chair
JoAnne Moon, Vice Chair
Greg Argenti
Beth Henley
Rob McFarland

Federal Programs Committee
Members
Rey Carrion, Chairman
Mitchell Fallis, Vice Chair
Pam Carter
JoAnne Moon
Tony Dimacchia

Finance Committee
Members
Mitchell Fallis, Chairman
Mary Springowski,Vice Chair
Tony Dimacchia
Josh Thornsberry
Rey Carrion

Parks and Recreation Committee
Members
Pam Carter, Chair
Joshua Thornsberry, Vice Chair
Beth Henley
Rey Carrion
Cory Shawver


Police / Fire and Legislative Committee

Members
Greg Argenti, Chairman
Tony Dimacchia, Vice Chair
Pamela Carter
Beth Henley
Mary Springowski

Streets and Utilities Committee
Members
Joshua Thornsberry, Chairman
Greg Argenti,Vice Chair

Mitchell Fallis
Rob McFarland
Cory Shawver

(3) Sending an ordinance to committee. This motion is always in order. If people have questions or we want more information, this is often utilized. Before members could speak at council meetings, I used to send items to committee so that we could let the public speak.

(4) How does an item get on the agenda?

We may have things brought to council by the administration, council members or department heads. It will then be out into the agenda software by the clerk of council and be reviewed by departments for legality and financial impact. As each person reviews it, it is “signed off on” and once all of the approvals are done, it is placed on the agenda for vote or discussion by council.

Clerk of Courts Nancy Greer

I have received your request for information regarding Council Committees. Attached is a copy of council rules, which is passed every two years by each council and directs how the body conducts business. You will notice a listing of committees, the process used during committee meetings and the voting requirements. Also included are the duties of the council president in addition to anything that is already called out in the Ohio Revised Code. There is not a specific “job description” for the President of Council or a Councilmember.

The public speaking portion of our meeting is also included in the attached Council Rules. We allow each individual 2 minutes with a cap of 20 minutes allowable time delegated to this segment. Council may waive these rules at any time, including public speaking, as long as it not a ORC requirement.

The chairperson (or vice chair) calls the committee meeting during a regular or special meeting unless it is deemed an emergency. This provides the public sufficient time to obtain information and attend if interested. Items discussed in committee are selected by the chair and can come from anywhere. Most often, items are referred from the regular meeting agendas but the chair can call a meeting to discuss an item of a general nature such as “Parks” or “Cats” etc.

The most common way that the general public brings a topic to the attention of the committee is through correspondence on our agendas. Items are read under correspondence and then referred to the appropriate committee for further review and discussion. In addition, any member of the public may contact any member of council to bring a subject to the floor for discussion. Oftentimes, a councilmember will ask the chair of a particular committee to schedule a meeting to discuss a matter of concern, perhaps in their respective ward. In summation, I would state that there are various ways to get subject matters or incidents or any topic to the appropriate committee for discussion without going through the administration.

We also have a new avenue that has been added to our meeting types and that is a Council Work Session. It was created to allow the body to thoroughly review and discuss matters in great detail. While the meetings are open to the public, public comment is not allowable. Oftentimes, the work session will involve a presentation. I will send you the resolution creating work sessions as well.

PDF Files  from Nancy  Greer
Greer Council Work Sessions
Greer Public Comments
Work Sessions

Motion to  Receive and File

Motion to receive and file: this is used when receiving correspondence. The motion acknowledges the correspondence and enters it as part of the official record.

To be continued…….

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City of Lorain Politics- Information archive

Documents from Nancy Greer ( Clerk of Council) in answer to the question

“We are having a discussion on Council Committees amongst other things and one of my questions is in regard to committees. Also is there a place that gives the official job description of just what a Council President role is. How are the rules set for time for general public to speak and who decides the time limit and is there a process to get extended time ? Sorry to be a nuisance but I want to make sure the information I am giving is accurate

I know Admin brings issues to be discussed in Committee wondering how this process works in the sense Can “department heads bring things directly to a committee without going through the Administration? Is there an avenue for the general public to bring an issue to one of the committees or do they first contact their council representative etc… how does that work.”

Nancy Greer’s Response

I have received your request for information regarding Council Committees. Attached is a copy of council rules, which is passed every two years by each council and directs how the body conducts business. You will notice a listing of committees, the process used during committee meetings and the voting requirements. Also included are the duties of the council president in addition to anything that is already called out in the Ohio Revised Code. There is not a specific “job description” for the President of Council or a Councilmember.

The public speaking portion of our meeting is also included in the attached Council Rules. We allow each individual 2 minutes with a cap of 20 minutes allowable time delegated to this segment. Council may waive these rules at any time, including public speaking, as long as it not a ORC requirement.

The chairperson (or vice chair) calls the committee meeting during a regular or special meeting unless it is deemed an emergency. This provides the public sufficient time to obtain information and attend if interested. Items discussed in committee are selected by the chair and can come from anywhere. Most often, items are referred from the regular meeting agendas but the chair can call a meeting to discuss an item of a general nature such as “Parks” or “Cats” etc.

The most common way that the general public brings a topic to the attention of the committee is through correspondence on our agendas. Items are read under correspondence and then referred to the appropriate committee for further review and discussion. In addition, any member of the public may contact any member of council to bring a subject to the floor for discussion. Oftentimes, a councilmember will ask the chair of a particular committee to schedule a meeting to discuss a matter of concern, perhaps in their respective ward. In summation, I would state that there are various ways to get subject matters or incidents or any topic to the appropriate committee for discussion without going through the administration.

We also have a new avenue that has been added to our meeting types and that is a Council Work Session. It was created to allow the body to thoroughly review and discuss matters in great detail. While the meetings are open to the public, public comment is not allowable. Oftentimes, the work session will involve a presentation. I will send you the resolution creating work sessions as well.

PDF FILES MENTION CAN BE FOUND HERE
Work Sessions

Greer Public Comments

Greer Council Work Sessions

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